Mark Hamill Gets Emotional Seeing Yoda Again

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Mark Hamill One time Over again Expresses Unhappiness With New 'Star Wars' Sequels

• Thread starter Bor Gullet
• Commencement engagement Mar 5, 2019

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• #901

I didn't realize that both Luke and anakin went out to battl

I hateful I guess both of them but went out to fight by themselves... nope there was no i else with them at all at their infinite battles. Like Han Solo non coming out of nowhere to aid Luke or the others space fighters with anakin...

how is that an excuse? Rey survived because Finn bought her fourth dimension, Kylo literally beat the shit out of her in the first few seconds of their fight

how the fuck is that a Mary Sue?

• #902

Star of a classic series had issues with a manager who seems more interested in projecting his friends from school into a series than staying faithful to the source material, shocking.

TLJ is only an ok movie with major plot problems. If it hadn't been for the characters being well developed in TFA it would be a complete failure. Because all his contributions were unimportant and pointless.

Rey's vision quest in the cave, then subsequently finding out her parents were nobodies, pointless .

Rey"s relationship with Kilo Ren went from hate to understanding back to hate. Pointless

Rose who did aught but relieve Finn'southward life. But had she not stopped him from going after Rey in the beginning place information technology wouldn't have need to be saved. Pointless

Oh and as a bonus this also would have removed the whole Canto Bight subplot which was... Pointless.

The you have Luke who is no longer willing to fight just ended up sacrificing himself pretending to fight in a battle that ultimately resulted in no major change in the conflict. Which makes his introduction and his leaving, you got information technology pointless.

The internet result of this motion picture is they got rid of Snoke. Merely did it such a way that made all the build upwardly and backstory, pointless.

Yall are fucking bad at understanding fiction and storylines. Journeys are xc% of the story, non where you end up.

• #903

I didn't realize that both Luke and anakin went out to battl

I mean I guess both of them just went out to fight by themselves... nope there was no one else with them at all at their space battles. Similar Han Solo not coming out of nowhere to help Luke or the others space fighters with anakin...

Kylo was literally bleeding out from a Wookiee Bowcaster shot before the fight even started. And even if y'all don't know how strong those are from a book or game, the move shows you THREE TIMES!... Like, I'm convinced that people who don't become how Rey won either:

A. Didn't pay attention to the film
B. Don't become Star Wars
C. Are just misogynistic, whether they realize it or not

• #904

You literally just fabricated my point for me while trying to invalidate it. Incredible.

This is why we can't have anything even remotely close to a skilful conversation about this moving picture or any film these days.

Luke didn't fight Vader in ANH? He got badly beaten in Empire. He'd had 5 years training by the fourth dimension of Jedi. That is non comparable to Rey in TFA...

• #905

People seem to be forgetting that Rey got stomped for even existence in Kylo's presence and was bailed out by Finn (if not for him, she'd be captured again). This is all while Kylo is physically and emotionally wrecked.

• #906

Kylo was literally bleeding out from a Wookiee Bowcaster shot before the fight even started. And even if you don't know how strong those are from a book or game, the move shows you lot 3 TIMES!... Like, I'm convinced that people who don't get how Rey won either:

A. Didn't pay attention to the picture show
B. Don't go Star Wars
C. Are only misogynistic, whether they realize it or non

It'southward weird that Finn didn't crush him if Kylo was then shut to death'due south door.

• #907

Why didn't Kylo just use the force to cauterize and/or seal his wound ala Leia surviving an explosion and space? I don't call up you can argue a Jedi is well-nigh death or significantly weakened from a simple bowcaster shot. Like haemorrhage out? cmon he can keep whatever and all claret from leaving his torso.

• #908

Information technology's weird that Finn didn't beat him if Kylo was so shut to decease's door.

Finn got a good hit in. Clipped him in the shoulder. And that'due south WITHOUT the Force. If Kylo was 100% Finn wouldn't accept lasted ii seconds. Rey maybe two minutes.
Kylo took a shot in the gut from THIS THING and you lot are wondering how he lost a fight against another strength sensitive?

• #909

It's weird that Finn didn't beat him if Kylo was so close to death'southward door.

I thought it was pretty clear that Kylo was but fucking with Finn and wanted to toy with him for his expose.. it was a part of his ego. Then when he realized Finn wasn't simply gunna buckle, he got pissed when he got hit and instantly finished him.

He knew Rey was a threat and even feared her, too she tried to immediately kill him and got knocked the fuck out

• #910

People seem to be forgetting that Rey got stomped for even existence in Kylo'due south presence and was bailed out by Finn (if not for him, she'd be captured again). This is all while Kylo is physically and emotionally wrecked.

I exercise observe it hilarious how people volition use bits of the films to eternalize their "criticisms"(Luke had backup during the Death Star run!) but ignore everything surrounding Rey, TFA goes out of its manner to highlight the state that Kylo Ren is in but people just don't desire to see.

Luke didn't fight Vader in ANH? He got badly beaten in Empire. He'd had 5 years preparation by the time of Jedi. That is not comparable to Rey in TFA...

Fun fact: Luke Skywalker never receives any blazon of combat grooming during the original trilogy. And considering he is the only guy running around with a sword where would he even get it? He gets i two minute bit about sensing the droid on the Falcon and that is it, the remainder of his preparation is spiritual.

And then, yes, Rey(who we are explicitly shown is able to fight) beating Kylo Ren(who is an emotional and concrete wreck at the time as well) is many degrees less ridiculous than Luke's adventures in being a hero.

• #911

I do find it hilarious how people will apply bits of the films to bolster their "criticisms"(Luke had backup during the Death Star run!) only ignore everything surrounding Rey, TFA goes out of its way to highlight the state that Kylo Ren is in but people merely don't want to come across.

Fun fact: Luke Skywalker never receives any type of combat training during the original trilogy. And considering he is the only guy running around with a sword where would he even go information technology? He gets one ii minute flake about sensing the droid on the Falcon and that is it, the residuum of his preparation is spiritual.

So, aye, Rey(who we are explicitly shown is able to fight) chirapsia Kylo Ren(who is an emotional and concrete wreck at the time as well) is many degrees less ridiculous than Luke's adventures in beingness a hero.

Yep. Where is this 5 years of training even coming from

• #912

Rey beating Ben, I become. He was pretty shaken and wounded badly and she had a lot of raw power she didn't really know how to use. She was more than focused than him, more in control, so she had the upper hand despite his higher level of skill and experience.

I all the same don't become how she was able to use the Force to dominate another person's mind, though, despite never having used it before. That's not something you can just intuit - it's well documented that such employ of the Force is super advanced and even folks similar Ezra, who also possessed peachy raw power, took months of training and instruction from someone that knew how to do it before they were able to themselves.

• #913

I practise find it hilarious how people will use $.25 of the films to bolster their "criticisms"(Luke had backup during the Death Star run!) but ignore everything surrounding Rey, TFA goes out of its way to highlight the state that Kylo Ren is in but people simply don't want to see.

Fun fact: Luke Skywalker never receives whatsoever type of combat grooming during the original trilogy. And because he is the only guy running effectually with a sword where would he even go information technology? He gets i two minute bit well-nigh sensing the droid on the Falcon and that is it, the rest of his training is spiritual.

So, yeah, Rey(who we are explicitly shown is able to fight) chirapsia Kylo Ren(who is an emotional and physical wreck at the time as well) is many degrees less ridiculous than Luke's adventures in existence a hero.

Yup. It'south the same convo that's been happening since TFA released. Why are they so upset a woman is the hero?

• #914

Rey beating Ben, I get. He was pretty shaken and wounded desperately and she had a lot of raw power she didn't really know how to use. She was more than focused than him, more in command, and so she had the upper hand despite his higher level of skill and feel.

I however don't get how she was able to apply the Force to dominate another person's mind, though, despite never having used it before. That'due south not something you tin simply intuit - it's well documented that such use of the Strength is super advanced and even folks similar Ezra, who also possessed great raw ability, took months of training and education from someone that knew how to do it earlier they were able to themselves.

Rey probably has similar close to Anakin level midichlorians or something. Or that Stormtrooper was peculiarly weak minded.

• #915

Yup. It'southward the same convo that's been happening since TFA released. Why are they so upset a woman is the hero?

Nosotros all know why people are okay with Luke being an expert with little to no training but don't buy Rey being skilled.

We don't even demand to say it out loud, we know what their true issue is.

• #916

Fun fact: Luke Skywalker never receives any type of combat training during the original trilogy. And because he is the but guy running around with a sword where would he even get it? He gets one two minute bit nearly sensing the droid on the Falcon and that is it, the rest of his training is spiritual.

He didn't do or receive any combat training from Yoda on Dagobah? I remember lines about how to fight against the nighttime side, the force is only for cognition and defense not attack, the practice fight against his vision, and the physical conditioning jumping through the swamp have to be considered combat training to some extent.

• #917

Rey beating Ben, I get. He was pretty shaken and wounded badly and she had a lot of raw ability she didn't really know how to apply. She was more than focused than him, more than in control, so she had the upper manus despite his higher level of skill and experience.

Rey probably has like close to Anakin level midichlorians or something. Or that Stormtrooper was particularly weak minded.

That'southward not something you tin just intuit - it'south well documented that such use of the Force is super advanced and even folks like Ezra, who besides possessed not bad raw ability, took months of grooming and educational activity from someone that knew how to do it earlier they were able to themselves.

The whole indicate of the torture scene with Rey and Ben was to bear witness that Ben was using his ability to practise what we'd seen him to practise Poe earlier in the film.. dominate his listen and break him to go what he wanted (information about where the map piece was).. and that Rey had the raw forcefulness to be able to resist him. She also began to understand what he was doing, and (briefly) turned information technology around on him. Kylo underestimated her in every way imaginable, even in the end of the film when they dueled.. he left himself open up and vulnerable without realizing it.

After learning this ability I don't think it'due south out of the question that she could use it on a much easier and dumber target.

Likewise we don't demand to quantify force levels to explain it. "It'southward over 9000" is probably the dumbest moment in SW history, which is why the concept of midis was left backside for the ST, even if still technically canon.

• #918

We all know why people are okay with Luke being an expert with lilliputian to no training just don't buy Rey being skilled.

We don't fifty-fifty need to say information technology out loud, we know what their true upshot is.

Breaking information technology downwardly into blatant sexism and nothing else by piling inferences on inferences is the least constructive fashion to make that argument if you lot actually desire to convince someone of it.

• #919

A Mary Sue, at to the lowest degree as it is used these days, is itself misogynistic.

I'll break information technology downward into a super easy to understand betoken: People call Rey a Mary Sue considering she(a woman) beats Kylo Ren(a human) in a sword fight. They do not call Luke Skywalker a May Sue despite the fact that he gets into the equivalent of a fighter jet for the first time and blows up a armed forces base the size of a moon. They do non phone call Anakin Skywalker a Mary Sue despite the fact that as a child he accidentally flew a fighter jet into space and blew up the droid control ship.

The Skywalker boys are both handed their greatness on a platter and what little justification we get for their supposed greatness nosotros get through exposition(Luke and his time in a T-sixteen). With Rey, conversely, nosotros are actually shown her competence and skills, we see she can and has to be able to handle herself just in order to survive, her scavenging in the wrecked Star Destroyer, etc. The one bit we are flat out told is that she is a good pilot but hey, that happens with Luke and then no big deal, right?

Luke Skywalker's entire take chances in A New Hope is more ridiculously impressive than anything Rey does. Farmboy gets caught up in a rebellion, infiltrates a military base the the size of a moon, rescues a princess from said war machine base the size of a moon, gets into a fighter jet and blows up the military machine base of operations the size of a moon .

People remember one person chirapsia another person in a one-on-i fight is more unrealistic than Luke blowing up the Death Star, it obviously strains all brownie and believably that Rey could win that fight because she is a adult female.

If you use the term "Mary Sue" as an actual attempt at criticism then you are using misogynistic garbage to try to back up whatever betoken y'all are trying to brand.

1) Luke is stated to exist a proficient pilot, his entire team allows him to save Leia (Han, Chewie, c3po R2 and Obi Wan), Luke is literally saved by Obi Wan so that he tin can escape, the Death Star is stated to have a flaw, information technology'due south the whole program it's not Luke getting lucky, Han saves Luke from Vader, Obi Wan connects to Luke one last time to guide him.

In Empire, Luke virtually dies because of his encounter with the Yeti thing, then has to train with Yoda to larn new force abilities, he is told he isn't ready and that information technology is too soon, doesn't listen, rushes in, and gets destroyed past Vader.

Years afterwards, Luke, after training plenty on his own, comes back, and is finally able to defeat Vader (a completely mutilated version of Anakin that is only a shadow of his quondam self in terms of power, as stated multiple times). He however is unable to overpower Sidious and Vader has to salvage him.

two) The entire concept of Anakin is that he was different any other (and Disney actually gave more than information regarding his birth in the new comics). He had unprecedented potential and this is why they took the take a chance of taking him despite his age.

Merely fifty-fifty then, what was the extent of his unnatural abilities at that point ? Pod racing and beingness a decent pilot. Absurd. Non quite the unbeatable fighter or insane forcefulness user you'd call up ?

He had to train for a DECADE to go decent. Call back he was completely trashed and humiliated by Dooku. Likewise there's a lot of comics / cartoons showing Anakin'south trials and growth which enriched his journey.
Yes he had bang-up potential, but he yet had to work difficult to do anything with it. It took him YEARS. Worse, he still LOST to Obiwan precisely because of his hard work and experience over Anakin'south overconfidence and lack of maturity.

three) Rey'south gender has literally nix to do with any of this.

Permit me give y'all an instance, the broom kid. Fuck him.

This character is an aberration. Rey has the excuse of being connected to Kylo, this child has none. It'south a clear proof that they accept a very wrong formulation of how this works. To put things dorsum into context, Anakin himself had to railroad train to brand things levitate, and this random child tin do information technology with no problem despite spontaneously...

But let's go back to Rey.

Why are people bothered ? Because she literally awakens to the Strength for less than an hr, and is able to improvise all force powers whenever it is convenient, with no training or guidance whatsoever, but she's as well able to outperform the heir of the most powerful (allegedly) bloodline that has trained all his life.

"But he was shot", so what ? The nighttime side gets more powerful through hurting. But okay, let's say Kylo isn't really dark, alright. She notwithstanding was able to completely master her new weapon, likewise as new abilities to match Kylo, and overpower him. But maybe he was in shock subsequently killing his dad. And perhaps this connexion that Rey and Kylo share is so deep that she has some of his abilities transferring over. Or maybe the Forcefulness just helped her out and she was able to channel it in an exceptional fashion to preserve the residual. That'south fine. (I personally liked TFA and had no problems with this honestly - at the time, as I was hoping it would be explored more)

We'll meet what the sequel will d---

Oh.
Correct.

Their connexion. "Snoke did it" (???) Ok then, well that didn't amount to much.

Mayhap she's very special then... ah no she's just a nobody... That trained for less than a couple of days (TLJ takes place direct after TFA with no time skip whatsoever ...).

Alright then. So they fight the guards, and Rey defeats all her enemies, and Kylo literally loses to them and has to be saved by Rey... Ok, cute scene.

So they forcefulness disharmonism, and he's knocked unconscious, but she'southward perfectly fine and has time to only run away and board her ship and leave before he even regains consciousness.

Okay. And and so she just improvises how to lift hundreds of boulders. Took Anakin and Luke a lot of time to successfully pull any of that off, simply she literally just casually did it. Again.

Her gender has aught to do with this.

It's like saying people are mad at Leia flying through space because she's a woman and it wasn't Luke that flew through infinite. It'southward preposterous.

To sum up :

1) This story needed more time, they should have never told all of information technology inside a couple of days, because it cheapens all of her accomplishments as it comes off as "as well easy". Information technology's not about the feat themselves, it's how and when they happen. It needed time to breathe. She needed more time to be fleshed out, maybe fail harder too because you grow from failure, anything to get in seem less straight frontward.

2) They absolutely butchered the fascinating Rey and Kylo connection with this snoke garbage.

3) Fifty-fifty if Rey is "boosted" by Kylo every bit her force alter ego, having raw power and learning how to tap into it / mastering it are ii different things.

• #920

Breaking it down into blatant sexism and nothing else by piling inferences on inferences is the least effective way to make that argument if you lot really want to convince someone of it.

I mean in that location is literally no other explanation. What do you call being upset at a female character being skilled merely handwave a male person character being just equally skilled, neither with any more relevant on-screen grooming than the other?

We all know the true origin of the Rey "mary sue" nonsense.

• #921

Rey probably has like close to Anakin level midichlorians or something. Or that Stormtrooper was particularly weak minded.

Or, much like the aforementioned Ezra, she was able to tap into a power she didn't know she had in a moment of agony. Funny they brought upward Ezra as an example of how difficult it is, because he's like the perfect instance of instinctively tapping into the force, having demonstrated jumping, pushing, pulling, and sensing danger in moments of agony without any training, and later struggling to do those same things during formal grooming.

• #922

1) Luke is stated to be a expert pilot, his unabridged team allows him to relieve Leia (Han, Chewie, c3po R2 and Obi Wan), Luke is literally saved by Obi Wan so that he can escape, the Death Star is stated to have a flaw, it's the whole program it'southward non Luke getting lucky, Han saves Luke from Vader, Obi Wan connects to Luke one final time to guide him.

In Empire, Luke almost dies because of his encounter with the Yeti thing, and so has to train with Yoda to learn new forcefulness abilities, he is told he isn't ready and that it is too soon, doesn't mind, rushes in, and gets destroyed by Vader.

Years later, Luke, after training enough on his own, comes back, and is finally able to defeat Vader (a completely mutilated version of Anakin that is merely a shadow of his former cocky in terms of power, as stated multiple times). He still is unable to overpower Sidious and Vader has to salve him.

2) The entire concept of Anakin is that he was different whatever other (and Disney actually gave more than information regarding his nascency in the new comics). He had unprecedented potential and this is why they took the risk of taking him despite his age.

But even then, what was the extent of his unnatural abilities at that point ? Pod racing and being a decent pilot. Cool. Not quite the unbeatable fighter or insane force user y'all'd think ?

He had to train for a DECADE to become decent. Recall he was completely trashed and humiliated by Dooku. Also in that location'south a lot of comics / cartoons showing Anakin's trials and growth which enriched his journey.
Yes he had great potential, but he still had to work hard to do anything with it. It took him YEARS. Worse, he still LOST to Obiwan precisely because of his hard work and experience over Anakin's overconfidence and lack of maturity.

3) Rey's gender has literally nothing to do with any of this.

Let me give you lot an example, the broom kid. Fuck him.

This graphic symbol is an aberration. Rey has the excuse of being connected to Kylo, this kid has none. It's a clear proof that they have a very incorrect conception of how this works. To put things back into context, Anakin himself had to train to make things levitate, and this random kid can do it with no problem despite spontaneously...

But let's go back to Rey.

Why are people bothered ? Because she literally awakens to the Force for less than an hour, and is able to improvise all strength powers whenever it is user-friendly, with no training or guidance whatsoever, but she'south also able to outperform the heir of the most powerful (allegedly) bloodline that has trained all his life.

"Only he was shot", so what ? The dark side gets more powerful through pain. Merely okay, let's say Kylo isn't really dark, alright. She notwithstanding was able to completely primary her new weapon, equally well as new abilities to match Kylo, and overpower him. But maybe he was in shock after killing his dad. And maybe this connection that Rey and Kylo share is so deep that she has some of his abilities transferring over. Or maybe the Force just helped her out and she was able to channel information technology in an exceptional style to preserve the balance. That's fine. (I personally liked TFA and had no issues with this honestly - at the time, as I was hoping it would be explored more)

We'll see what the sequel will d---

Oh.
Right.

Their connection. "Snoke did it" (???) Ok then, well that didn't amount to much.

Maybe she'south very special then... ah no she's only a nobody... That trained for less than a couple of days (TLJ takes identify straight after TFA with no time skip any ...).

Alright then. So they fight the guards, and Rey defeats all her enemies, and Kylo literally loses to them and has to be saved by Rey... Ok, cute scene.

And then they force clash, and he's knocked unconscious, but she's perfectly fine and has time to just run abroad and board her ship and get out before he fifty-fifty regains consciousness.

Okay. And and so she just improvises how to lift hundreds of boulders. Took Anakin and Luke a lot of time to successfully pull any of that off, only she literally but casually did it. Over again.

Her gender has nix to do with this.

Information technology'south similar proverb people are mad at Leia flight through space considering she's a woman and it wasn't Luke that flew through space. It's preposterous.

To sum up :

i) This story needed more than fourth dimension, they should have never told all of it inside a couple of days, because it cheapens all of her accomplishments as it comes off equally "too piece of cake". It's not about the feat themselves, information technology'due south how and when they happen. It needed fourth dimension to breathe. She needed more fourth dimension to be fleshed out, maybe fail harder too considering y'all grow from failure, anything to brand it seem less direct forward.

two) They absolutely butchered the fascinating Rey and Kylo connectedness with this snoke garbage.

3) Even if Rey is "boosted" by Kylo every bit her force alter ego, having raw power and learning how to tap into it / mastering it are 2 unlike things.

such a long post to only say "i dont similar women being powerful" lol

and again, KYLO DID Not GOT STRONGER BY HATE OR RAGE

killing his begetter broke him.

• #923

He didn't exercise or receive any gainsay grooming from Yoda on Dagobah? I recollect lines about how to fight against the nighttime side, the force is merely for knowledge and defense not attack, the practice fight against his vision, and the physical conditioning jumping through the swamp have to be considered combat grooming to some extent.

There is a deleted scene where Yoda flings some rocks at him and he swats at them with his lightsaber (its looks bad, expert matter information technology was cut). Merely that is Inappreciably the aforementioned as having someone else to really spar with, which equally any fencer or HEMA person will tell is the pretty much the only fashion to actually because skilled at dueling someone.

• #924

Hehe

He'southward right, they fucked luke

• #925

also, nosotros accept seen toddlers levitating things.

aberration my ass

• #926

In that location is a deleted scene where Yoda flings some rocks at him and he swats at them with his lightsaber (its looks bad, skillful affair it was cut). But that is HARDLY the same equally having someone else to actually spar with, which as any fencer or HEMA person volition tell is the pretty much the only mode to really because skilled at dueling someone.

Still seems a lot different than saying he never receives any type of combat training. The invaluable forcefulness training from master Yoda is worth at least the endless hours training to go an skilful sword fighter imo. The perceived speed of a fight is going to exist slow considering of the force resulting in non needing a traditional fighting expertise to reach the same slowed downward perception. A Jedi could striking a major league fastball without an formal training in the same fashion a professional person adept hitter could. The 10000 hours to get an expert and perceive the pitch slow plenty to hitting are not needed.

• #927

Yall are fucking bad at agreement fiction and storylines. Journeys are 90% of the story, non where yous end upwards.

Well excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me for wanting the the 2d picture show in a trilogy to have some context outside of itself. That said the journey was simply ok, I was entertained. But it's goose egg I'd ever want to scout once again. Thankfully Rian closed out all his arcs and didn't change things that much. Hopefully the side by side one will be good and I can just skip this ane in any rewatching of the series. Because the plot of information technology hurts my brain.

• #928

Yep. Where is this 5 years of training even coming from

People are being completely ridicolous. Luke never got whatsoever combat training, and he started off being less trained than Rey is in terms of non-jedi combat.

SW makes information technology extremely clear that training isn't meant to make you ameliorate, equally Jedis are fundamentally guided by instinct. It's meant to teach you how to control and channel your ability.

People also completely forget how Kylo Ren also grew up in a world where no lightsaber users exist, and was barely given gainsay training by Luke. Kylo isn't much more experienced than Rey to begin with.

• #929

[Rian Johnson] said, 'Okay, go over and do whatsoever.' And then I went over, and I did whatever."

Grade A directing going on hither.

• #930

I mean there is literally no other explanation. What practise you telephone call being upset at a female character being skilled but handwave a male grapheme being just as skilled, neither with any more than relevant on-screen grooming than the other?

We all know the true origin of the Rey "mary sue" nonsense.

I mean, if you lot want to believe that literally anybody who thinks that is beingness deliberately disingenuous then well, okay, but don't believe information technology's an effective way of making an statement because the number of people who explicitly believe that the way you are framing it isn't likely very loftier.

• #931

Rian Johnson : "OK go over and do any "
Lmao

• #932

People are being completely ridicolous. Luke never got whatever combat training, and he started off beingness less trained than Rey is in terms of non-jedi gainsay.

SW makes information technology extremely clear that preparation isn't meant to make you amend, as Jedis are fundamentally guided by instinct. It's meant to teach you how to control and aqueduct your ability.

People too completely forget how Kylo Ren besides grew upwardly in a world where no lightsaber users exist, and was barely given combat training by Luke. Kylo isn't much more than experienced than Rey to begin with.

I.. wow we are like-minded again I'k not sure how I feel about that.

And lol at some people saying shit like "Kylo was an experienced/adept swordsman" like nosotros have whatsoever proof or even prove of that at all. Unless we consider butchering students at the academy expertise. Surely he got preparation from Luke but we nevertheless take no evidence that he even used information technology in even a single battle that wasn't slaughtering children.

Rey has more combat training than Kylo ever did. She got it, indirectly, from living in Fury Road for almost her entire life (and we find out very early on why she carries a staff). Luke, Kylo and Anakin never had any of that natural experience and were all protected and nurtured by family/guardians. Rey survived alone with no one to protect her.

• #933

[Rian Johnson] said, 'Okay, go over and do whatsoever.' Then I went over, and I did whatever."

Class A directing going on here.

Rian Johnson : "OK go over and exercise whatever "
Lmao

Is whatever meant to be taken literal or is information technology the equivalent of proverb "Go exercise X"?

Edit: Reread that quote. Information technology'south no different then giving the role player liberty to do literally whatever they want. No different than any other managing director

• #934

I mean, if y'all want to believe that literally everyone who thinks that is beingness deliberately disingenuous then well, okay, but don't believe it'southward an effective way of making an argument considering the number of people who explicitly believe that the mode you are framing information technology isn't probable very high.

the thing is that people keeps giving justifications for anakins and lukes powers and feats and go on ignoring everything about Rey background

• #935

as well, we take seen toddlers levitating things.

aberration my ass

Hope you empathize I patently wasn't complaining nearly age only what the extent of their knowledge is.
Those toddlers were in an Jedi academy...

such a long postal service to only say "i dont like women being powerful" lol

and again, KYLO DID Not GOT STRONGER BY Detest OR RAGE

killing his father bankrupt him.

I have literally brought both those points forward equally acceptable takes.

And of course I hate powerful women. They're coarse and rough, and they get everywhere.

• #936

Bring back midichlorians JJ, yous coward!

• #937

Hope you understand I patently wasn't complaining nigh age but what the extent of their knowledge is.
Those toddlers were in an Jedi university...

I have literally brought both those points frontward as acceptable takes.

And of course I detest powerful women. They're coarse and crude, and they get everywhere.

no they werent on the jedi academy.

nosotros have seen little kids show their forcefulness abilities before the jedi took them to the temple

• #939

This is so fucked. They already fucked this up badly in Episode vii when Chewbacca walks right by Leia after Han died. It actually bothered me and nonetheless does.

"They had me walking by 3PO, non even acknowledging him. I said: 'I can't do that! [Rian Johnson] said, 'Okay, go over and exercise whatever.' And so I went over, and I did whatever."

I liked his little flash at 3PO and that he got to meet his main essentially go from elementary subcontract boy to a God.

For the tape I concluded upward loving Episode 7 and 8, but I completely understand the problems with them and have a few complaints of my own, though I've since come to terms with them.

Mostly to practise with tone.

• #940

1) Luke is stated to be a good pilot, his unabridged team allows him to salvage Leia (Han, Chewie, c3po R2 and Obi Wan), Luke is literally saved by Obi Wan so that he tin escape, the Death Star is stated to have a flaw, it's the whole plan it's not Luke getting lucky, Han saves Luke from Vader, Obi Wan connects to Luke one final time to guide him.

In Empire, Luke almost dies because of his encounter with the Yeti matter, then has to train with Yoda to learn new force abilities, he is told he isn't ready and that it is too soon, doesn't listen, rushes in, and gets destroyed past Vader.

Years afterwards, Luke, after preparation enough on his own, comes back, and is finally able to defeat Vader (a completely mutilated version of Anakin that is merely a shadow of his sometime self in terms of power, as stated multiple times). He still is unable to overpower Sidious and Vader has to save him.

2) The unabridged concept of Anakin is that he was unlike any other (and Disney actually gave more information regarding his nativity in the new comics). He had unprecedented potential and this is why they took the hazard of taking him despite his historic period.

Just even then, what was the extent of his unnatural abilities at that point ? Pod racing and being a decent pilot. Absurd. Not quite the unbeatable fighter or insane strength user you'd think ?

He had to train for a DECADE to become decent. Remember he was completely trashed and humiliated by Dooku. Also there's a lot of comics / cartoons showing Anakin's trials and growth which enriched his journey.
Yes he had great potential, but he yet had to work hard to practise anything with it. It took him YEARS. Worse, he notwithstanding LOST to Obiwan precisely considering of his hard work and experience over Anakin's overconfidence and lack of maturity.

iii) Rey's gender has literally nothing to do with any of this.

Permit me requite y'all an example, the broom kid. Fuck him.

This grapheme is an aberration. Rey has the excuse of being connected to Kylo, this kid has none. It'south a articulate proof that they take a very incorrect conception of how this works. To put things back into context, Anakin himself had to train to make things levitate, and this random kid tin can do it with no problem despite spontaneously...

But permit's go back to Rey.

Why are people bothered ? Because she literally awakens to the Force for less than an hour, and is able to improvise all force powers whenever it is convenient, with no preparation or guidance whatsoever, merely she'southward also able to outperform the heir of the most powerful (allegedly) bloodline that has trained all his life.

"Just he was shot", so what ? The dark side gets more powerful through pain. But okay, let's say Kylo isn't really dark, alright. She withal was able to completely master her new weapon, also equally new abilities to match Kylo, and overpower him. But mayhap he was in shock afterward killing his dad. And maybe this connection that Rey and Kylo share is then deep that she has some of his abilities transferring over. Or peradventure the Forcefulness only helped her out and she was able to channel it in an exceptional manner to preserve the residuum. That's fine. (I personally liked TFA and had no issues with this honestly - at the fourth dimension, as I was hoping it would be explored more)

We'll see what the sequel volition d---

Oh.
Right.

Their connection. "Snoke did information technology" (???) Ok then, well that didn't amount to much.

Maybe she's very special then... ah no she'due south merely a nobody... That trained for less than a couple of days (TLJ takes identify direct after TFA with no time skip whatever ...).

Alright then. So they fight the guards, and Rey defeats all her enemies, and Kylo literally loses to them and has to be saved past Rey... Ok, cute scene.

And and so they strength clash, and he'southward knocked unconscious, but she'south perfectly fine and has time to just run away and board her ship and leave before he even regains consciousness.

Okay. And then she just improvises how to elevator hundreds of boulders. Took Anakin and Luke a lot of time to successfully pull any of that off, but she literally just casually did it. Again.

Her gender has nix to do with this.

It'south similar saying people are mad at Leia flight through space because she's a woman and information technology wasn't Luke that flew through infinite. It'southward preposterous.

To sum upward :

ane) This story needed more than time, they should take never told all of information technology within a couple of days, considering it cheapens all of her accomplishments as it comes off equally "too easy". It's non about the feat themselves, it'southward how and when they happen. It needed time to breathe. She needed more fourth dimension to be fleshed out, peradventure neglect harder also considering yous grow from failure, anything to brand information technology seem less directly frontwards.

2) They admittedly butchered the fascinating Rey and Kylo connection with this snoke garbage.

three) Even if Rey is "additional" by Kylo as her forcefulness modify ego, having raw power and learning how to tap into information technology / mastering it are two different things.

In that location was literally no other known human being existence in the galaxy who could fly pods except forcefulness Jesus Ani due to his 9000 midis.

• #941

Hope you sympathize I plain wasn't complaining about historic period but what the extent of their knowledge is.
Those toddlers were in an Jedi academy...

https://www.youtube.com/lookout?5=qXR5YJSZifE

Here is a kid barely by infancy levitating a ball.

• #942

Is any meant to exist taken literal or is it the equivalent of maxim "Get exercise 10"?

Reread that quote. It's no dissimilar then giving the actor freedom to practise literally whatever they want. No different than whatever other managing director

Sure.

• #944

Luke didn't fight Vader in ANH? He got badly beaten in Empire. He'd had five years training past the time of Jedi.

Luke didn't build his green lightsaber until literally a day before going to rescue Han....he went an entire year without using one. And didn't frequently use the one he had prior to meeting yoda. This "LUKE TRAINED IN Betwixt ESB AND ROTJ" nonsense is but that, nonsense. Luke was as well busy focusing on helping the resistance to really train for long periods of time.

Well excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me for wanting the the second film in a trilogy to have some context outside of itself.

Literally all the context for the character development in TLJ, is a direct response to storylines presented in TFA:

Resistance is packing up trying to get away from their base of operations on D'Qar. Direct continuation from TFA where, if yous don't recall, Starkiller base was charging upward to fire on the Resistance base. FO knew where they were. FO forces were not concentrated at Starkiller base of operations, and it'southward destruction did non destroy the FO ability to swiftly enter into the milky way conquering mode.

Finn wakes up from blackout, shouting REY, showtime thing he asks anyone he recognizes, 'Where's Rey?' Directly continuation of his attitude and mission from TFA. If y'all don't retrieve, he told Han he specifically came to Starkiller to get Rey.

Luke and Rey on Ach-To, don't know how you tin miss the direct continuation there.

Snoke and Kylo. stop of TFA, Snoke orders Hux to bring Kylo to him and so he can complete his preparation. Straight continuation, where Snoke berates Kylo for his failure to take out Rey. I personally assume that this convo could itself be an aspect of his training, though it isn't necessarily that, could simply exist what information technology appears to be, a dressing downwards for failure. Training to come afterward.

That all work? How does TLJ disregard things set in TFA?

https://world wide web.youtube.com/watch?v=qXR5YJSZifE

Hither is a child barely past infancy levitating a ball.

We should ignore this, and nosotros should besides ignore the literal exposition in TPM nigh Anakin using strength powers without even knowing what it was.

"RiaN JOhnSon DoeSN't undErStANd SW"

Nah, information technology's the people who treat the force like this:

who completely miss the point.

• #945

Luke didn't build his green lightsaber until literally a day earlier going to rescue Han....he went an unabridged year without using one. And didn't frequently use the one he had prior to meeting yoda. This "LUKE TRAINED IN Between ESB AND ROTJ" nonsense is just that, nonsense. Luke was too busy focusing on helping the resistance to actually railroad train for long periods of time.

Literally all the context for the character evolution in TLJ, is a direct response to storylines presented in TFA:

Crossing Eden wiping out months old posts because people jut dont get it.

wait,

they dont want to get information technology

• #946

[Rian Johnson] said, 'Okay, go over and do whatever.' So I went over, and I did any."

Grade A directing going on here.

Ad-libbing has given u.s. some of the greatest moments and lines in cinema, including "I know." Then I don't see the problem.

• #947

Wow RJ allow Hamill do something that turned out to exist one of the best moments in TLJ?

Cancel his trilogy for real this time

• #948

Why tin't it simply be Mary Sue without it being misogynistic?

Because the only reason Rey is being called a mary sue is because she's a women. Even if we were to attach to the idea of chosen by the force, she'd held up to a much higher degree of scrutiny than Luke or Anakin ever was despite both films going out of their manner to explain through visuals, sound pattern, and dialogue, what she'southward all about.

I mean I guess both of them just went out to fight by themselves...I forgot the events of the film or am blatantly ignore the events of the film to make it seem like Rey was non helped on multiple occasions #notsexist

What really happened in TFA:

Side by side.

Ad-libbing has given united states some of the greatest moments and lines in cinema, including "I know." So I don't see the trouble.

"The trouble is that I hate Rian Johnson and thus will concur him up to ridiculous scrutiny because he eating crackers like he owns the place."

• #949

Considering the only reason Rey is beingness called a mary sue is because she'southward a women. Even if nosotros were to attach to the idea of chosen by the forcefulness, she'd held up to a much college degree of scrutiny than Luke or Anakin ever was despite both films going out of their fashion to explain through visuals, sound design, and dialogue, what she'southward all about.

What actually happened in TFA:

Adjacent.

"The problem is that I detest Rian Johnson and thus will concur him up to ridiculous scrutiny because he eating crackers like he owns the identify."

damn, Daisy Ridley can act

perezourepts1993.blogspot.com

Source: https://www.resetera.com/threads/mark-hamill-once-again-expresses-unhappiness-with-new-%E2%80%98star-wars%E2%80%99-sequels.103442/page-19

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